Sword Art Online: Alicization

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michelous
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Re: Sword Art Online: Alicization

Postby michelous » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:57 am

yeah the reactions are getting worse now with both sides getting pissed off at the director for putting the scene in and aniplex for censoring it

i can only imagine if they used the version from the web novel

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Eira
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Re: Sword Art Online: Alicization

Postby Eira » Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:13 pm

fragoff wrote:
Eira wrote:Controversial just means controversial. It doesn’t have to mean upset or insulted by it.

If you disagree, you are affected by it. If not, there is no contreversy. and you generaly don't disagree if you either don't care or are positivly affected by it. Your sentence does not make sense.

I stand by that you don’t have to be insulted. You can disagree with something without being insulted or upset by it but effect in other but still negative ways. For Instance, I disagree with the use of it, but I’m not insulted or upset that it was there, I just think it’s unneccasary and done in poor taste and thus I disagree with the use of it.
fragoff wrote:
Eira wrote:The fact that you seem to be bothered by people being upset by the content and then others not having that opnion makes it controversial for you.

My problem is that 'people being upset' are aplenty nowdays and get upset by the most insignificant of things. And that this is for them an occasion to either mute or erease freedom of speech in its many forms. If things were 'just controversial' like you say, i wouldn't mind. but this is not what is happening in our society.

Getting mad about the overall state of society because people don’t like rape in anime is a little silly, imo. I understand the frustration as I also have it to a dagree but I don’t think that’s a reason to get mad at people who don’t like seeing rape.
fragoff wrote:The simple fact that there is 2 versions of the anime rest my case. In a healthy society, the 'rape scene' is shown as is because it is part of the creator's will for it to be there.

I’m not really sure if it was the creators will tho. Kawahara, the orginal LN author made an apology to the voice actor for having to do that scene, and he has gone out of his way to say that rappy villains is a part of his old writing that he regrets and that recently he’s been trying really hard to not include those kind of things anymore. If he had the chance to rewrite it I feel like he would of left that out. It seems like he’s noticed the unneccasirty of it. Does this not make the side that doesn’t like it more justified? See how things get grey things get if you really go into it.

You don’t have to agree with me, I’m not trying to push that kind of agenda. Just wanting to make my points.

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michelous
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Re: Sword Art Online: Alicization

Postby michelous » Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:23 pm

Eira wrote:I’m not really sure if it was the creators will tho. Kawahara, the orginal LN author made an apology to the voice actor for having to do that scene, and he has gone out of his way to say that rappy villains is a part of his old writing that he regrets and that recently he’s been trying really hard to not include those kind of things anymore. If he had the chance to rewrite it I feel like he would of left that out. It seems like he’s noticed the unneccasirty of it. Does this not make the side that doesn’t like it more justified? See how things get grey things get if you really go into it.

You don’t have to agree with me, I’m not trying to push that kind of agenda. Just wanting to make my points.

he did rewrite the scene in
Spoiler:
the original web novel version just the aftermath of it was shown with the girls having dead eyes have been raped

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Whiskeyjack19
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Re: Sword Art Online: Alicization

Postby Whiskeyjack19 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:41 pm

Episode 10

Spoiler:
I tend to agree that most of that scene was unnecessary, it just felt so over the top to make sure the viewer had zero sympathy for the guy who died.

On another note I'm getting pretty sick of these fights. All they amount to lately is the combatants locking swords and pushing against each other for 3 minutes. Then someone wins and the spectators cream their jeans like that was the coolest thing ever.
Move like lightning, sound like thunder.
http://myanimelist.net/profile/Whiskeyjack19

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fragoff
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Re: Sword Art Online: Alicization

Postby fragoff » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:08 pm

Eira wrote:
fragoff wrote:
Eira wrote:Controversial just means controversial. It doesn’t have to mean upset or insulted by it.

If you disagree, you are affected by it. If not, there is no contreversy. and you generaly don't disagree if you either don't care or are positivly affected by it. Your sentence does not make sense.

I stand by that you don’t have to be insulted. You can disagree with something without being insulted or upset by it but effect in other but still negative ways. For Instance, I disagree with the use of it, but I’m not insulted or upset that it was there, I just think it’s unneccasary and done in poor taste and thus I disagree with the use of it.
fragoff wrote:
Eira wrote:
The fact that you seem to be bothered by people being upset by the content and then others not having that opnion makes it controversial for you.

My problem is that 'people being upset' are aplenty nowdays and get upset by the most insignificant of things. And that this is for them an occasion to either mute or erease freedom of speech in its many forms. If things were 'just controversial' like you say, i wouldn't mind. but this is not what is happening in our society.

Getting mad about the overall state of society because people don’t like rape in anime is a little silly, imo. I understand the frustration as I also have it to a dagree but I don’t think that’s a reason to get mad at people who don’t like seeing rape.
fragoff wrote:The simple fact that there is 2 versions of the anime rest my case. In a healthy society, the 'rape scene' is shown as is because it is part of the creator's will for it to be there.

I’m not really sure if it was the creators will tho. Kawahara, the orginal LN author made an apology to the voice actor for having to do that scene, and he has gone out of his way to say that rappy villains is a part of his old writing that he regrets and that recently he’s been trying really hard to not include those kind of things anymore. If he had the chance to rewrite it I feel like he would of left that out. It seems like he’s noticed the unneccasirty of it. Does this not make the side that doesn’t like it more justified? See how things get grey things get if you really go into it.

You don’t have to agree with me, I’m not trying to push that kind of agenda. Just wanting to make my points.


It is not about the rape nore about being mad about it. Stop getting stuck one those 2 things and get the general picture. I am only using rape as the exemple that started the discution.
As for me being 'mad' at anything, stop giving me intentions that can only be based on your own belief, an easy if often wrong assumption you can make when reading posts on forums instead of seeing face to face.
But it is good that you try to bring your point across. That you be good or bad at it, right or wrong about it, discution is always a good way to move forward.
"Tolerance is the lube that helps slip the didlo of dysfunction into the neko of a civilized society" -Plato

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Eira
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Re: Sword Art Online: Alicization

Postby Eira » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:54 pm

fragoff wrote:It is not about the rape nore about being mad about it. Stop getting stuck on those 2 things and get the general picture. I am only using rape as the exemple that started the discussion.


Okay well you didn’t make that very clear, your posts are often a mess of spelling mistakes and poor grammar and I can be hard to understand what kind of point you’re trying to make. Also since this is an anime forme I’m more so just having the dicussion as it relates to Swort Art. If you just wanna have the General dicussion then I’m notreally interested lol.

fragoff wrote:As for me being 'mad' at anything, stop giving me intentions that can only be based on your own belief, an easy if often wrong assumption you can make when reading posts on forums instead of seeing face to face.


Are you able to view thing outside of your own belief and then apply them on a regular basis during conversation, cause I don’t get the impression that you ever try to do that. I also didn’t make an assumption that you were mad, that was more so just poor word choice on my part. But I guess if you where able to stop giving me intentions that can only be based on your own belief that maybe you would of considered that.

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fragoff
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Re: Sword Art Online: Alicization

Postby fragoff » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:01 am

Eira wrote:Okay well you didn’t make that very clear, your posts are often a mess of spelling mistakes and poor grammar and I can be hard to understand what kind of point you’re trying to make. Also since this is an anime forme I’m more so just having the dicussion as it relates to Swort Art. If you just wanna have the General dicussion then I’m notreally interested lol.


I am deeply sorry i cannot accomodate you on all the requirments you ask of me. Maybe you should show me the exemple and speak in my native tongue for...demonstration purpose.
Other than than, sorry if you find my writing missleading. Next time, just ignore my comments, make your life easier.

Eira wrote:Are you able to view thing outside of your own belief and then apply them on a regular basis during conversation, cause I don’t get the impression that you ever try to do that. I also didn’t make an assumption that you were mad, that was more so just poor word choice on my part. But I guess if you where able to stop giving me intentions that can only be based on your own belief that maybe you would of considered that.


Having your beliefs and forcing them, or any other supposed intentions, on people are 2 very different things.
I do not make the assumption that what you write is anything more than what you actually wrote. Thus, i do not assume your state of mind when i read something. I do not 'read betwen the lines because nothing is writen there.
If you are making a mistake, then just say 'i made a mistake'. Do not tell the person you are talking to that it is his fault for 'not understanding what you meant' in the first place.
What 'you meant' could be anything i choose it to be, making it an underhanded tactic in most cases.
You do not seam to understand the concept here. Maybe i am explaining it wrong. Sorry.
"Tolerance is the lube that helps slip the didlo of dysfunction into the neko of a civilized society" -Plato

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Eira
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Re: Sword Art Online: Alicization

Postby Eira » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:59 am

fragoff wrote:I am deeply sorry i cannot accomodate you on all the requirments you ask of me. Maybe you should show me the exemple and speak in my native tongue for...demonstration purpose.
Other than than, sorry if you find my writing missleading. Next time, just ignore my comments, make your life easier.

I don’t really expect anyone to meet some kind of requirements, I just wanted to explain why I misunderstood your intention with this dicussion. I’m just not really interested in having it on a broader level but at the most basic level and without wanting to get deeper into. I’ll just say that I agree with you about it, on the most basic level. Obviously we might disagree on some smaller details of it but I’d rather not bother as it doesn’t really interest me personally.
fragoff wrote:If you are making a mistake, then just say 'i made a mistake'. Do not tell the person you are talking to that it is his fault for 'not understanding what you meant' in the first place.
What 'you meant' could be anything i choose it to be, making it an underhanded tactic in most cases.
You do not seam to understand the concept here. Maybe i am explaining it wrong. Sorry.

I was more so just using your words against you in order to show that I don’t really think it was a fair point for you to make it yourself. I didn’t actually mean it to it’s fullist. That’s why I did right before it mention that saying you were ‘mad’ was a poor word choice on my part, thus taking the blame for myself. I guess it also wasn’t clear that I was being absurd which I should of taken into account right after having to clean up a different misunderstanding.

But at this point I think the conversation has stayed so far away from Sword Art and I’m content with ending it here so that’s that. I think I cleared up all misunderstandings.

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fragoff
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Re: Sword Art Online: Alicization

Postby fragoff » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:23 am

Eira wrote: I’m just not really interested in having it on a broader level but at the most basic level and without wanting to get deeper into.
But at this point I think the conversation has stayed so far away from Sword Art and I’m content with ending it here so that’s that.


Conversation that stray are the best, my young friend. Everything is worth talking about in lenghty ways. Be it to understand or to play with the mind, Verbelizing thoughts throught discussion makes things go foreward.

the reality centered around one self and its perception. this is all about SaO in the end.
"Tolerance is the lube that helps slip the didlo of dysfunction into the neko of a civilized society" -Plato

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Eira
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Re: Sword Art Online: Alicization

Postby Eira » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:20 am

fragoff wrote:Conversation that stray are the best, my young friend. Everything is worth talking about in lenghty ways. Be it to understand or to play with the mind, Verbelizing thoughts throught discussion makes things go foreward.

I enjoy conversation, I just don’t feel like having this specific one since I’ve had it so many times and in the end I agree with you anyway so I don’t see much point. Plus everything has a time and place whole you can say it connects to Sword Art it still doesn’t make me wanna have it any more. You’re right that having the dicussion does have its value but I guess I’m just not in the mood for some discussions some times.

Although I’m always in the mood for A dicussion, but I guess I’m picker about that then I thought. Or maybe the recent rise in talking has made me spoilt, I don’t know.