Genre discussion

Current and Classic Animation!
User avatar
Fullmetal-Senpai
Otaku
Posts: 1837
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:13 am
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Genre discussion

Postby Fullmetal-Senpai » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:41 pm

Here we go Boys and girls. Its time to get everyone mad at me.I know it feels like just yesterday that everyone was chomping at the bit to lambaste me for having the audacity to write what I thought, but I live for that salt so here goes.

Slice of Life is a very broad genre, worthlessly broad if you ask me. Slice of life is basically every series with a main character. I much prefer the common distinctions of CGDCT (cute girls doing cute things) or Iyashikei (healing anime) because they much better describe what people are more often talking about when they're talking about "slice of life" anime.

To expand, I'm much more prone to use sub-genres to describe certain series. For instance, calling Boku no hero a "shonen" doesnt really sell the story, it gets the point across sure but "super heros" seems to get the point across much better, and while I'm on the topic I'll come out and say it loud and proud;
SHONEN,SEINEN,JOSEI,AND SHOJO ARE NOT GENRES
There i said it, and they aren't. What they are however are demographics. Shonen is for young or adolescent boys, Seinen is for "young adult" or adult men, Josei is for older women, and shojo is for younger girls. Does that mean that you NEED to be inside the target demographic for a series? HECK NO! I love josei series because it usually consists of more adult themed romances and dramas. Is everything in the series gonna be for me? Well of course not. I'm a 25 year old man. So lets spend a bit breaking down what people mean when they say these demographics usually in my experience.

Shonen- Action or adventure, usually reliant on "journey to the west" style of story telling. Most long running shows go into this genre. One piece, Dragonball, Naruto, Bleach, Yuu Yuu Hakusho, Ect. However not all shonen need to be epics, simply not too "out there" or "deep" for the nuance of the entire story to be lost on a younger audience, I.e death note, deadman wonderland, Fullmetal alchemist, or noragami.

Shojo is a little harder to pin down but it seems to pigeon hole itself into basic romance stories, thats not necessarily a dig on the whole demographic, not by a long shot. every romance isn't a sweeping tale of risk, reward, back stabbing, or the like. This demographic includes series such as my little monster, fruits basket, lovely complex, toradora, and kimi ni todoke. I like to call most series in this demographic, romance, "basic romance" or "low romance." There are, as always, exceptions, but for the most part these seem to fit.

Seinen is usually psychological in nature. Think psycho pass, monster, Ghost in the shell, and berserk. However it also comprises itself of series of a more sexual nature, as well as edgy topics. These series are monster musume, btooooom, black lagoon, and aoi bungaku. Most of the series in this demographic tend to have serious rules and worlds built up that are taken quite seriously, at least most of the time.

Josei, Much like Seinen is just the "grown up" version of its base demographic. As such it takes similar themes and treats them very seriously. Some that come to mind are Nodame cantabile, kids on the slope, and Honey and clover. The series in this Demographic tend to be "high romance", "strong drama", and,somehow, also psychological.

Well that's all until I get a proper response :D

User avatar
Chris
Site Co-Founder
Posts: 2440
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:37 pm

Re: Genre discussion

Postby Chris » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:58 pm

BlueSpark wrote:
Chris wrote:the root of the problem is that slice of life conflicts with anything that is not slice of life.
I'd only halfway agree with that. In my mind, slice of life mixes pretty well with romance and drama in most cases. Sports, too, if you want to call that a full-fledged genre (which is debatable). But yeah, it's mutually exclusive with a lot of other genres.




(side note for bluespark: you don't halfway agree you agree you just missed the point of my statement.) ;-)

don't think i ever implied that. i would consider drama romance and sports grounded in reality. the crux of the debate is in where the tipping point for leaving slice of life and going into fantasy.

as i do believe this discussion was before flying witch lets use that as an example. yes i know it is a healing anime. but would you consider it a slice of life or a fantasy. this point of the discussion i was adding was where is the tipping point. fantasy and slice of life are contradictory.

i.e. this part here :

Chris wrote:

talking about shonen was kind of easy to discuss but hitting slice of life i realized i could have fun discussing that genre . what makes a genre what confuses you a bout a genre. maybe someone can help.

and lets have a little fun with me and Andrews baby debate. if castle town dandelion is slice of life then miss monochrome is slice of life.

where is the line that disqualifies a show as slice of life.



Andrew considers castle town dandelion a slice of life yet not miss monochrome. my argument is that castle town dandelion is far more fantastical then miss monochrome why the difference in treatment.

BlueSpark wrote:
Tori wrote:To me SoL anime has always been shows that focus on the characters and their lives. As long as that is the focus it's a SoL anime to me.
I very much agree with this, although I'd add an additional stipulation: To me, slice of life means showcasing a (or several) character's ordinary life. Of course, something extraordinary happens to any person now and again, so that's certainly allowed. But if you stretch it too far and call Yuki Yuna a slife-of-life show (taking Neko's example here), then you open up the door to call almost any anime series a SoL, which defeats the purpose.


Neko wrote:Why call a show 'Fantasy Slice of Life"? Well if it's a show like Monster Musume, the whole hook is everyday life with monster girls. So everyday live, but monster girls. The whole joke is that this bunch f monster girls have to deal with mundane day-today stuff.
This is mostly a good example, although I have trouble fully categorizing Monster Musume as a slice of life (full English title of the show notwithstanding) because the harem situation is pretty out of the ordinary. A more fitting example, in my mind, would be A Centaur's Life. Once you take the world of that anime for granted, everything that happens is just a calm and ordinary slice of the characters' lives.

Now, Neko outlined a nice definition of what I regard as SoL as a setting:
Neko wrote:Then there is how grounded in reality they are, from something with absolutely no supernatural elements
This. Basically 100% realistic. This would obviously disqualify anything in the "magical realism" realm such as Kanon, but Love, Chunibyo & Other Delusions! would work, even though what the characters actually do in that show is far from ordinary (see definition 1). This perspective on slice of life would notably include most shoujo romance series.

Now, I could pose that only animes which qualify for both of the above restrictions are 'true' SoL. But that would be incredibly limiting, to the point that there might only be a handful of applicable shows out there. The idea reminds me of studio Ghibli's Only Yesterday, which I sadly found rather boring. So perhaps it's for the best that we don't really see many "true" slice-of-life animes like that.



all of this is exactly my point. like you pointed out a pure slice of life would naturally have a realistic expectation of a slice of someones life. if it is yuki yunas life then if she has supernatural battles then so be it. but my argument is if you allow yuki yuna then why not ichigo kurosaki from bleach? and no I'm not saying you are allowing yuki yuna. but why not? 60% of that show is cute girls doing cute things 20 % is drama and then the last 20% is magical girl.

if flying witch is considered slice of life which i would argue is like 75% magical and 25% living a normal life around magic. i argue flying witch is more magical then yuki yuna.

also i absolutely believe love chuunibyo is slice of life and i will fight to the death on that one.


BlueSpark wrote:
Logan wrote:As for Snow White with the Red Hair, I don't view it as Slice of Life. It is first and foremost a romance and then a drama.
That's my take on it, too. Wherever possible, I prefer to categorize shows by 1 primary and 1 secondary genre.
So yes, Snow White would be a dramatic romance for me. Or a fantasy romance if you throw fantasy into the genre bucket instead of keeping it separate as a setting.
On the flip side, ef - A Tale of Memories is a romantic drama because the drama portion is so much more pronounced.
For series like Date a Live, I'd say harem comedy (or comedy harem) - that is if we want to include harem as a proper genre in the first place.

Lastly, this approach also challenges the use of the oft-employed term "romantic comedy" in certain cases. Specifically, I've heard people call Mysterious Girlfriend X a romantic comedy. I was honestly perplexed; I just don't see it. The show hardly has any comedy to it. If anything, I'd call it a comedic romance, although even that seems like a stretch to me; I don't see any strong secondary genre in that anime, so I'd classify it as a 'pure' romance.



think your missing Logan on this one he was responding to kokurek and arguing against him on its viability as a slice of life. i think romance and drama are solid genre choices for snow white with the red hair. so i don't disagree. yet i also don't disagree with kokurec. he didn't say snow white was a slice of life he said:

Kocurek1944 wrote:For me the problem with slice of life as a genre is lack of sub genres.
Each time rules are changed we see creation of new one.
Mecha has:
-super robots
-real robots
-fantasy mecha etc.
Fantasy has:
-high fantasy
-steampunk etc.
Science-Fiction has:
-dark science-fiction
-cyberpunk etc.
But slice of life doesn't have that which makes classification of very difficult. People because of lack of this smaller pockets tend to think that sol only consists of shows set in high school.
I for example have no problem calling first season of 'Akagami no Shirayuki-hime' fantasy slice of life.


interestingly you are completely disagreeing with kokurek in saying you want to prune down genres down to just primary and secondary. while i agree with the ease your also destroying the whole point of genres in general. genre is effectively the dna of your show. its a meta map to help you find what you want to see. want an ecchii harem supernatural. high school dxd, rosario + vampire. take away supernatural and replace it with aliens and you lose those two and get to love ru, cat planet cuties. now be strictly echii and harem and be prepared for the onslaught of harems.

now i don't think what kokureck is saying quite captures the issue of contradiction of genres fantasy =/= slice of life. but he is proposing a slight solution of where fantasy is not slice of life make a new genre all together. like maybe extraordinary life.


also girlfriend x is an odd show in general i agree i don't find it to be comedy so much i think that was a victim of circumstance first person to put its information up thought it was supposed to be a comedy based on first few minutes and never bothered to fix the genre. but also kinda believe slice of life is solid here honestly. drama is a secondary as well while light it still has character study moments dealing with awkwardness and what is normal in a odd couple.

Fullmetal-Senpai wrote:Here we go Boys and girls. Its time to get everyone mad at me.I know it feels like just yesterday that everyone was chomping at the bit to lambaste me for having the audacity to write what I thought, but I live for that salt so here goes.



shoot just ran out of anger pills so guess you will just have to deal with incoherent half thoughts.

Fullmetal-Senpai wrote:Slice of Life is a very broad genre, worthlessly broad if you ask me. Slice of life is basically every series with a main character. I much prefer the common distinctions of CGDCT (cute girls doing cute things) or Iyashikei (healing anime) because they much better describe what people are more often talking about when they're talking about "slice of life" anime.



buu still not feeling the angers yet... noob.

no for reals i think this is a good point. which is kind of another way of putting what kokurek said we need better genres for hybrids


Fullmetal-Senpai wrote:
To expand, I'm much more prone to use sub-genres to describe certain series. For instance, calling Boku no hero a "shonen" doesn't really sell the story, it gets the point across sure but "super heroes" seems to get the point across much better, and while I'm on the topic I'll come out and say it loud and proud;
SHONEN,SEINEN,JOSEI,AND SHOJO ARE NOT GENRES
There i said it, and they aren't. What they are however are demographics. Shonen is for young or adolescent boys, Seinen is for "young adult" or adult men, Josei is for older women, and shojo is for younger girls. Does that mean that you NEED to be inside the target demographic for a series? HECK NO! I love josei series because it usually consists of more adult themed romances and dramas. Is everything in the series gonna be for me? Well of course not. I'm a 25 year old man. So lets spend a bit breaking down what people mean when they say these demographics usually in my experience.





still not feeling the anger. are you sure your not angering yourself here. and projecting it on everyone else. ;-p

Fullmetal-Senpai wrote:
Shonen- Action or adventure, usually reliant on "journey to the west" style of story telling. Most long running shows go into this genre. One piece, Dragonball, Naruto, Bleach, Yuu Yuu Hakusho, Ect. However not all shonen need to be epics, simply not too "out there" or "deep" for the nuance of the entire story to be lost on a younger audience, I.e death note, deadman wonderland, Fullmetal alchemist, or noragami.

Shojo is a little harder to pin down but it seems to pigeon hole itself into basic romance stories, thats not necessarily a dig on the whole demographic, not by a long shot. every romance isn't a sweeping tale of risk, reward, back stabbing, or the like. This demographic includes series such as my little monster, fruits basket, lovely complex, toradora, and kimi ni todoke. I like to call most series in this demographic, romance, "basic romance" or "low romance." There are, as always, exceptions, but for the most part these seem to fit.

Seinen is usually psychological in nature. Think psycho pass, monster, Ghost in the shell, and berserk. However it also comprises itself of series of a more sexual nature, as well as edgy topics. These series are monster musume, btooooom, black lagoon, and aoi bungaku. Most of the series in this demographic tend to have serious rules and worlds built up that are taken quite seriously, at least most of the time.

Josei, Much like Seinen is just the "grown up" version of its base demographic. As such it takes similar themes and treats them very seriously. Some that come to mind are Nodame cantabile, kids on the slope, and Honey and clover. The series in this Demographic tend to be "high romance", "strong drama", and,somehow, also psychological.



i actually like this breakdown. i absolutely agree that the demos are pigeonholed into genres. i think that's a discussion all by itself. may want to start a separate thread for that if it starts bogging down this discussion.

ugg wall of text. hope you find that fun.
Image

User avatar
BlueSpark
Otaku
Posts: 1560
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:23 am
Location: Germany

Re: Genre discussion

Postby BlueSpark » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:37 am

Fullmetal-Senpai wrote:This demographic includes series such as my little monster, fruits basket, lovely complex, toradora, and kimi ni todoke.
Toradora! is an interesting mention here. I've always been under he assumption that shows with male protagonists tend to be targeted at a male audience, and female protagonists at female viewers. As such, I'd place that series more as a shounen (as I would all the Key animes). My viewing experience coincides with this, given that I've always had a rocky relationship with shoujo romances, yet I love Toradora! unconditionally.

I would add Nana as a very noteworthy josei title, just in case you're looking to gather more examples.

Chris wrote:fantasy and slice of life are contradictory.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. At least when regarding slice of life as a genre (i.e. my 1st definition), I see no reason why a character in a fantasy setting shouldn't be eligible for a SoL anime. I haven't watched Flying Witch quite yet, but from what I'm gathering, it should be a perfectly fine candidate for the category.
Of course, the show still needs fantasy as a genre tag. But I don't see the two as mutually exclusive.

Chris wrote:if it is yuki yunas life then if she has supernatural battles then so be it. but my argument is if you allow yuki yuna then why not ichigo kurosaki from bleach? and no I'm not saying you are allowing yuki yuna. but why not? 60% of that show is cute girls doing cute things 20 % is drama and then the last 20% is magical girl.
You know, you actually make a very good point there. On the whole, I consider Toradora! a drama even though most of the first half of the series is mainly comedy with a splash of romance. So if I wanted to be consistent, I guess Yuki Yuna would qualify as SoL... although it doesn't quite 'feel' right to me. Anyway, food for thought much appreciated :).

Chris wrote:interestingly you are completely disagreeing with kokurek in saying you want to prune down genres down to just primary and secondary.
I didn't mean anime series should only ever be classified by 2 genre tags per title. Just that I prefer breaking things down like that when talking about shows, because it makes the whole thing more 'managable' in conversation. I probably worded it wrong, so my bad.

Chris wrote:but also kinda believe slice of life is solid here honestly. drama is a secondary as well while light it still has character study moments dealing with awkwardness and what is normal in a odd couple.
Interestingly, MGX fits neither of my two definitions of SoL. Well, arguably the 1st one, but it's a bit of a stretch in my book. And yet it definitely has a slice-of-life-y vibe to it.
Also, yeah, there's a drama element in there, for sure. But I find it's so minor that calling the show a drama (or even dramatic romance) doesn't really help to convey what the series is about.
Image
Know a decent number of anime characters? Check out my forum game!

User avatar
SethAmaha
Anime Junky
Posts: 900
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:07 am
Contact:

Re: Genre discussion

Postby SethAmaha » Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:04 am

This is simply my simplistic view of it but I see Slice of Life to be the homely feel of a show. Why does Fling Witch, which features a witch and her exploration of her powers have a better take on the Slice of life genre than shows like Yuki Yuna? My basic answer is that one show is centred around the grounded life of the main character. Flying witch, while it may have a lot of magical elements in it, it stays grounded in the homely life experience of the character. It doesn't dive too deeply into the magical element, rather it is seen as just an everyday part of her life and doesn't try to over explain or enfecise th element. What is emphasis is the character, not the magic.

Shows like Yuki Yuna in contrast is more on the element of the fantastical. While it does have skits of slife of life elements, its main focus is on the magical aspect of the show. Sure, it is from time to time featuring them in a club setting doing clb things, but at a certain point, it is always shadowed by the magical element of the show. Any show can have an element of slice of life, but only certain shows focus on it and that is what sets them apart from other genres.

User avatar
Fullmetal-Senpai
Otaku
Posts: 1837
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:13 am
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Genre discussion

Postby Fullmetal-Senpai » Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:33 pm

Chris wrote:
Fullmetal-Senpai wrote:Here we go Boys and girls. Its time to get everyone mad at me.I know it feels like just yesterday that everyone was chomping at the bit to lambaste me for having the audacity to write what I thought, but I live for that salt so here goes.



shoot just ran out of anger pills so guess you will just have to deal with incoherent half thoughts.


Bring it on, we'll see if we can make complete thoughts together.

Chris wrote:
Fullmetal-Senpai wrote:Slice of Life is a very broad genre, worthlessly broad if you ask me. Slice of life is basically every series with a main character. I much prefer the common distinctions of CGDCT (cute girls doing cute things) or Iyashikei (healing anime) because they much better describe what people are more often talking about when they're talking about "slice of life" anime.



buu still not feeling the angers yet... noob.

no for reals i think this is a good point. which is kind of another way of putting what kokurek said we need better genres for hybrids

Chris, I don't think I could make you feel anger without getting banned ::alone::

Anyway, like I said, or maybe didn't, I think "sub-genres" are a way better descriptor for an anime. Would you describe Ghost in the shell as a "thriller" or would it be better served as "cyber-punk." I for one think the cyber punk elements of GITS are much more important to its description than spoiling the body horror and other things.

Chris wrote:
Fullmetal-Senpai wrote:
To expand, I'm much more prone to use sub-genres to describe certain series. For instance, calling Boku no hero a "shonen" doesn't really sell the story, it gets the point across sure but "super heroes" seems to get the point across much better, and while I'm on the topic I'll come out and say it loud and proud;
SHONEN,SEINEN,JOSEI,AND SHOJO ARE NOT GENRES
There i said it, and they aren't. What they are however are demographics. Shonen is for young or adolescent boys, Seinen is for "young adult" or adult men, Josei is for older women, and shojo is for younger girls. Does that mean that you NEED to be inside the target demographic for a series? HECK NO! I love josei series because it usually consists of more adult themed romances and dramas. Is everything in the series gonna be for me? Well of course not. I'm a 25 year old man. So lets spend a bit breaking down what people mean when they say these demographics usually in my experience.





still not feeling the anger. are you sure your not angering yourself here. and projecting it on everyone else. ;-p

So maybe I might be a little aggressive, its one of those things I've talked to death in the past so I Kinda assume everyone's heard my perspective. Clearly not the case.
Chris wrote:
Fullmetal-Senpai wrote:
Shonen- Action or adventure, usually reliant on "journey to the west" style of story telling. Most long running shows go into this genre. One piece, Dragonball, Naruto, Bleach, Yuu Yuu Hakusho, Ect. However not all shonen need to be epics, simply not too "out there" or "deep" for the nuance of the entire story to be lost on a younger audience, I.e death note, deadman wonderland, Fullmetal alchemist, or noragami.

Shojo is a little harder to pin down but it seems to pigeon hole itself into basic romance stories, thats not necessarily a dig on the whole demographic, not by a long shot. every romance isn't a sweeping tale of risk, reward, back stabbing, or the like. This demographic includes series such as my little monster, fruits basket, lovely complex, toradora, and kimi ni todoke. I like to call most series in this demographic, romance, "basic romance" or "low romance." There are, as always, exceptions, but for the most part these seem to fit.

Seinen is usually psychological in nature. Think psycho pass, monster, Ghost in the shell, and berserk. However it also comprises itself of series of a more sexual nature, as well as edgy topics. These series are monster musume, btooooom, black lagoon, and aoi bungaku. Most of the series in this demographic tend to have serious rules and worlds built up that are taken quite seriously, at least most of the time.

Josei, Much like Seinen is just the "grown up" version of its base demographic. As such it takes similar themes and treats them very seriously. Some that come to mind are Nodame cantabile, kids on the slope, and Honey and clover. The series in this Demographic tend to be "high romance", "strong drama", and,somehow, also psychological.



i actually like this breakdown. i absolutely agree that the demos are pigeonholed into genres. i think that's a discussion all by itself. may want to start a separate thread for that if it starts bogging down this discussion.

ugg wall of text. hope you find that fun.


I like walls of text, I wouldnt mind breaking off into a different thread, but I'm not sure where this convo would go.

BlueSpark wrote:
Fullmetal-Senpai wrote:This demographic includes series such as my little monster, fruits basket, lovely complex, toradora, and kimi ni todoke.
Toradora! is an interesting mention here. I've always been under he assumption that shows with male protagonists tend to be targeted at a male audience, and female protagonists at female viewers. As such, I'd place that series more as a shounen (as I would all the Key animes). My viewing experience coincides with this, given that I've always had a rocky relationship with shoujo romances, yet I love Toradora! unconditionally.

I would add Nana as a very noteworthy josei title, just in case you're looking to gather more examples.

While I understand your rationale its completely wrong. Back in the day shonen were being sold based on them having female protags. I.E slayers, Claymore, Soul eater, and witch hunter robin. With that in mind you may be more into shojo than you think. Some examples of shoujo anime are Skip beat, Natsumes book of friends, The world is still beautiful, His and her circumstances, and Ore monogatari.

Look, I dunno, shoujo is just not my favorite demo, I just dont like it on the whole. You're probably right about your taste, just trying to open up the possibility.
BlueSpark wrote:
Chris wrote:fantasy and slice of life are contradictory.


We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. At least when regarding slice of life as a genre (i.e. my 1st definition), I see no reason why a character in a fantasy setting shouldn't be eligible for a SoL anime. I haven't watched Flying Witch quite yet, but from what I'm gathering, it should be a perfectly fine candidate for the category.
Of course, the show still needs fantasy as a genre tag. But I don't see the two as mutually exclusive.


Im gonna totally agree with you on this one. As I said earlier, SOL is way too general.

BlueSpark wrote:
Chris wrote:if it is yuki yunas life then if she has supernatural battles then so be it. but my argument is if you allow yuki yuna then why not ichigo kurosaki from bleach? and no I'm not saying you are allowing yuki yuna. but why not? 60% of that show is cute girls doing cute things 20 % is drama and then the last 20% is magical girl.


You know, you actually make a very good point there. On the whole, I consider Toradora! a drama even though most of the first half of the series is mainly comedy with a splash of romance. So if I wanted to be consistent, I guess Yuki Yuna would qualify as SoL... although it doesn't quite 'feel' right to me. Anyway, food for thought much appreciated :).


This is exactly why I want clearer distinctions in "genres" MSG is just Amuro Reis life, NGE is Shinji Ikaris life, Madoka Magica is just Madoka Kanames life ( well I'd argue that Homura is the protag, but whatever) Its clear we need something more compartmentalized.

BlueSpark wrote:
Chris wrote:interestingly you are completely disagreeing with kokurek in saying you want to prune down genres down to just primary and secondary.


I didn't mean anime series should only ever be classified by 2 genre tags per title. Just that I prefer breaking things down like that when talking about shows, because it makes the whole thing more 'managable' in conversation. I probably worded it wrong, so my bad.


I agree I think, Sub-genres are vitally important to quickly describe a show without reading a synopsis.

User avatar
Fullmetal-Senpai
Otaku
Posts: 1837
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:13 am
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Genre discussion

Postby Fullmetal-Senpai » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:01 pm

Hello, its me the conversation killer, here to strike another thread dead.

User avatar
Fullmetal-Senpai
Otaku
Posts: 1837
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:13 am
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Genre discussion

Postby Fullmetal-Senpai » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:08 pm

Bump?

User avatar
Eira
Anime Junky
Posts: 896
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 6:00 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Genre discussion

Postby Eira » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:05 pm

Well I haven’t talked in this yet so I’ll just address a few things, mainly I’m so glad someone bloody said it! Shōnen is a demographic, not a genre. I had a discussion like this with some friends of mine on a discord a few days ago. I think we were talking about Hero Aca or something and someone was asking for clarity on Shōnen and I just said ‘it just means the show is aimed at young boys’ and for some reason that started a whole long discussion becuase he refused to believe me!

And this really is the root of this cause he was like ‘well yer, I know that’s what it means, but if a show doesn’t have any fights then is it really a Shōnen.’ And I’m thiking ‘yes you god gao idiot, ichigo 100% is an ecchi romance, but it’s also a Shōnen!

And then he basically just kept repeating himself cause he was not equipped for the conversation at all and basically was saying ‘when I think of Shōnen it’s more like, fights and stuff right’ I think the way anime fans have tried to make these things be genres to replace the actual genre that’s jsut common within a demographic has caused these misconceptions and I hate it.
Everything I say is in relation to me, objectivity doesn't exist.

MAL: https://myanimelist.net/profile/Eira_99
Feel free to add me on Discord for more chat form discussions: One True Eira#1560

User avatar
fragoff
I Bleed Anime
Posts: 1086
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:09 am

Re: Genre discussion

Postby fragoff » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:40 pm

Doesn't shõnen litteraly say 'for boys'. If so, it is a genre. Or maybe more accuratly a sub genre.

As you would say 'a comedy for boys' meaning a comedy not made for adults nore girls.

The only issue with this is your definition of 'genre'. Because if you indentify it closly to the notion of 'style', then it can get complucated.
Because shonen is nothing by itself. You cannot really talk about a boy's show unless you tag a style to it.
What would a 'boy' show' inclued otherwise? Fighting? Comedy? Love? Those are all things that can be used in 'girl's show'.
You then can talk about a comedy more likely to be appriciated by boys, a drama more likely to be appriciated by girls, etc...

So sub genre would be more accurate. A comedy for boys. A drama for boys. An action adventure for boy.

Or you could decide, by a pure point of view, that boys, girls, adults are genres and that comedy, drama or action are sub genres. But the former cannot define a show without the later.
"Tolerance is the lube that helps slip the didlo of dysfunction into the neko of a civilized society" -Plato

User avatar
BlueSpark
Otaku
Posts: 1560
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:23 am
Location: Germany

Re: Genre discussion

Postby BlueSpark » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:37 am

Well put, fragoff. I like your notion that shonen etc. don't have any 'substance' regarding the content of a series. Trying to use these as the sole characteristics to describe an anime would be the same as saying show XYZ is an "epic" (i.e. it says nothing about what happens in the story, although one could argue that epics are almost always adventure-oriented shows).

Then again, the same would hold true if we relegated these terms to the level of sub-genres. At least to me, the concept of "genre" is invariably tied to what is depicted in a piece of media. But the expressions for demographics discussed here really don't entail any of that. I'd personally prefer to keep them strictly separated from genre descriptors such as "romance," "action," "comedy" and what I consider good candidates for sub-genres: "school," "mecha," "fantasy" etc..
Image
Know a decent number of anime characters? Check out my forum game!