The Open letter

Current and Classic Animation!
User avatar
Fullmetal-Senpai
Otaku
Posts: 1835
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:13 am
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: The Open letter

Postby Fullmetal-Senpai » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:11 am

I will try my best to keep this relevant, letting it go solves nothing for me.

User avatar
BlueSpark
Otaku
Posts: 1552
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:23 am
Location: Germany

Re: The Open letter

Postby BlueSpark » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:12 am

Eira wrote:I've made your non-existent point and want to "let this whole thing go" then just do that.

However if you still want to be a part of it, then don't complain about it and just say what you want to say.
Look, Eira, no offense, but from my point of view, it's you who's dragging things out with this comment. Seth did "let it go" by not posting anything else in this thread after November 13 - or rather, no one else replied to it, so there was nothing more to talk about - until you quoted him (mistakenly assuming his post was new - I, too, was confused about the bumping mechanic for a minute). I honestly don't understand how you could see him in the wrong here.

As far as his "non-existant point," I think it's a point that's perfectly valid. I'm trying to look at this from a 3rd-person angle, because myself, I have no problem reading a row of posts of several hundred words if the topic interests me. But I believe there are many forum users who aren't willing to invest that amount of time. Any way you slice it, these people are being alienated by walls of text.

I'm not saying we should cater to the needs of the lowest common demoninator, but SethAmaha's argument certainly isn't without merit. The bottom line, as I see it, is that no matter how we shape our forum discussions, it's impossible to please everyone.
Image
Know a decent number of anime characters? Check out my forum game!

User avatar
Eira
Anime Junky
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 6:00 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Open letter

Postby Eira » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:57 am

BlueSpark wrote: Look, Eira, don't take this the wrong way, but from my point of view, it's you who's dragging things out with this comment. Seth did "let it go" by not posting anything else in this thread after November 13 - or rather, no one else replied to it, so there was nothing more to talk about - until you quoted him (mistakenly assuming his post was new - I, too, was confused about the bumping mechanic for a minute). I honestly don't understand how you could see him in the wrong here.

Have I misunderstood. It seems it may of been possible that the post was made ages ago but if the bumping systems works like I now think it does then that’s really confusing. Cause Seth’s posts says it was posted on Dec 19th (my time) so it’s really confusing if that’s part of the bumping system, should be more clear. I did indeed think it was a new post. Even if that’s not the case If this dicussion still needs to happen then it needs to happen.
BlueSpark wrote:As far as his "non-existant point," I think it's a point that's perfectly valid. I'm trying to look at this from a 3rd-person angle, because myself, I have no problem reading a row of posts of several hundred words if the topic interests me. But I believe there are many forum users who aren't willing to invest that amount of time. Any way you slice it, these people are being alienated by walls of text.

I do understand this but I don’t think it really invalidates anything fullmetal Senpai has been trying to achieve with this post. I’ll admit that when I first joined I did feel overwhelmed by stuff at first. But there’s things like ‘what game are you playing’ or ‘what anime are you watching’ and the introduction area that let me make posts where I didn’t need to read the stuff before it and overtime I became a part of the community. I don’t think it’s hard for someone to join at the moment I don’t think more dicussion will make it much harder. It does all come down to the person in the end but as someone who experienced it recently I can say that while I felt overwhelemed it didn’t take long to settle in, we’re all pretty welcoming.
BlueSpark wrote:I'm not saying we should cater to the needs of the lowest common demoninator, but SethAmaha's argument certainly isn't without merit. The bottom line, as I see it, is that no matter how we shape our forum discussions, it's impossible to please everyone.

I agree with this, and I also don’t think we need to please everyone. Not everything is for everyone and if the forme ending up with an identify and kinds of people who are going to enjoy useing it is just part of it. The problem here is decided what kind of users we want to satisfy and how we can satisfy them. The reason this whole thing is even a drama is becuase the current community and used base, us active members are in disagreement and I think it’s important to try and get us all satisfied. Despite my announce with some people I don’t wanna see anyone leave, I’d rather we reach some kind of agreement. And yes maybe fullmetal and me are really pushing for others to have a change of heart and that’s not fair, but something has to be done. Becuase a lot of the old members have left and how long is it until more people leave.

Like seriously stop and think about this. There’s like only 5 active members when you take the whole site into account. Me, BlueSpark, Seth, Fullmetal Senpai and Fragoff. There are others but they’re semi-active, not really fully active. I don’t want that 5 people to become even smaller.
Everything I say is in relation to me, objectivity doesn't exist.

MAL: https://myanimelist.net/profile/Eira_99
Feel free to add me on Discord for more chat form discussions: One True Eira#1560

User avatar
BlueSpark
Otaku
Posts: 1552
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:23 am
Location: Germany

Re: The Open letter

Postby BlueSpark » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:49 am

Eira wrote:if the bumping systems works like I now think it does then that’s really confusing.
Sure is. I don't think there's any need to have it change the post date (which also removes the information of when it was actually posted) if we already get the small note below the post ("Last bumped by fullmetal-senpai [...]"). Worse still, as I just realized: Now that notification is gone, and it genuinely looks like Seth made the post in December. As long as that mechanic doesn't change, I honestly think it'd be best not to use the bump function and just make a "bump" post instead.

Eira wrote:I agree with this, and I also don’t think we need to please everyone.
Right, but the big question isn't whether or not we want to satisfy every kind of user (which is impossible anyways), but rather who we try to cater to. That's where our (meaning all the active members who have posted on this thread) opinions diverge.

To be 100% frank, we're never going to find a uniform style to approach this whole forum thing, so I'll just keep posting in my usual way that feels comfortable to me.

Eira wrote:Becuase a lot of the old members have left and how long is it until more people leave.
While I appreciate that you care enough to bring this up, I'd caution you to overgeneralize the reason for why they left. Of course, I don't know all of their reasons, myself. But if you're going to push some of the forum members who are left into a direction they don't like, our numbers might drop even more while the chances of the previous members coming back are - at least in my mind - quite slim.

Eira wrote:I don’t want that 5 people to become even smaller.
You and me both. It does get a bit lonely on occasion. But at least to a degree, I think we just need to accept our differences instead of bending over backwards to change our ways. We can't bank on newly joining forum members to be more inclined towards one style or another.
Image
Know a decent number of anime characters? Check out my forum game!

User avatar
Eira
Anime Junky
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 6:00 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Open letter

Postby Eira » Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:25 am

BlueSpark wrote:Right, but the big question isn't whether or not we want to satisfy every kind of user (which is impossible anyways), but rather who we try to cater to. That's where our (meaning all the active members who have posted on this thread) opinions diverge.

Well obviously I’ve been pushing for my own idea, but on top of that it’s what Fullmetal and the old members seems to talso think. Now I know you have comments about me talking about the old members so I’ll get to that.
BlueSpark wrote:While I appreciate that you care enough to bring this up, I'd caution you to overgeneralize the reason for why they left. Of course, I don't know all of their reasons, myself. But if you're going to push some of the forum members who are left into a direction they don't like, our numbers might drop even more while the chances of the previous members coming back are - at least in my mind - quite slim.

I agree that they’re quite slim, but I would like to point out that I do understand why they left. I’ve talked with both fullmetal and Chris a lot about the past of the site. Although I don’t know chris’ opnion on much of this, I’ve just learnt some of it though him. On fullmetal discord you’ll find all the old members, and I’ve talked to a handful of them. I learnt why they left, why they came back shortly and why they then left again almost right away.

I know it’s not exactly fair to try and push people to act a certain way here and now I notice that it’s basically pointless to keep trying. I only did it on the first place cause I thought maybe people who agree if I explained things in a certain way or that maybe we’d all reach some kind of agreement. But I think we’ve just ended up in the same place we started for the most part and everyone going to stick with what they always have.

Which I can’t really blame anyone for, people are going to act how they want and I won’t say it’s wrong or anything. I just wanted it to be another way and it hasn’t become that other way. It was a selfish desire in the first place anyway. But if you guys had changed and had become more like what I or fullmetal wanted then I think the old members would of come back, or at least it would of been more likely and that’s my real entire point. If they all came back that would be the real most desirable situation for me. I’ve talked with them enough on discord, I don’t know if they’d come back had things gone that way, but It was the main intention behind my actions.

BlueSpark wrote:But at least to a degree, I think we just need to accept our differences instead of bending over backwards to change our ways. We can't bank on newly joining forum members to be more inclined towards one style or another.

True and becuase we’re just a bunch of people who make posts on the site I’ve never felt like we always had to hate eachother or like eachother and I don’t think we need to agree on everything. But I just wanted it to be more lively and as you said, we can’t bank on new members so bringing back as many of the old members as possible looked like the best solution to the goal I wanted.

I think at this point it’s impossible for even the current 5 to be stable. As far as I can tell this open letter dicussion is bascially done now. I don’t have to much to say on it, with recent developments and form what I’ve hewrd from others in the discord I’m pretty sure that there’s no point in me trying to push that agenda anymore.

I don’t think I’ll leave the site, at least not for now. I like that the community watch along is working. If I must then I’ll try to push more things like that, I want to do everything in my power to try and make the community more lively. But with the number looking like it’s going to dip below 5, I’m feeling very melancholic over it right now.

Looking back over it this post is a bit messy, I kind of wrote it as I thought of it and more ideas kept coming to mind. I hope it’s easy enough to understand what I’m trying to say. If we do end up with a 4 people active situation then you can expect me to change how I go about posting quite a bit.
Everything I say is in relation to me, objectivity doesn't exist.

MAL: https://myanimelist.net/profile/Eira_99
Feel free to add me on Discord for more chat form discussions: One True Eira#1560

User avatar
BlueSpark
Otaku
Posts: 1552
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:23 am
Location: Germany

Re: The Open letter

Postby BlueSpark » Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:40 am

Eira wrote:Looking back over it this post is a bit messy.
Didn't feel that way to me. I thought it was coherent enough.

Eira wrote:I only did it on the first place cause I thought maybe people who agree if I explained things in a certain way or that maybe we’d all reach some kind of agreement.
And I think it's very honorable of you to try so hard for the forum's (and essentially the community's) sake. But I suppose at some point, you just have to accept that people are how people are.

I agree that there's probably not much more to be said on this topic. I'll keep my fingers crossed that those few of us who have stuck it out so far will continue to hang around. I'm certainly not planning to go anywhere (although I have gotten somewhat active on the Animedubs subreddit recently, I still feel at home at Otaku Spirit).
Image
Know a decent number of anime characters? Check out my forum game!

User avatar
Fullmetal-Senpai
Otaku
Posts: 1835
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:13 am
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: The Open letter

Postby Fullmetal-Senpai » Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:47 am

Image

User avatar
Fullmetal-Senpai
Otaku
Posts: 1835
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:13 am
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: The Open letter

Postby Fullmetal-Senpai » Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:03 pm

Bumpity bump bump

User avatar
Eira
Anime Junky
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 6:00 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Open letter

Postby Eira » Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:47 pm

Fullmetal-Senpai wrote:Bumpity bump bump

An interesting bump, tbh I would like to talk about it more but almost everything has been said and everyone seems pretty set in their ways on this. I don't think this issue can really develop anymore unfortunately. I'd love for that not to be the case and for this to be able to go somewhere but it doesn't look that way to me.
Everything I say is in relation to me, objectivity doesn't exist.

MAL: https://myanimelist.net/profile/Eira_99
Feel free to add me on Discord for more chat form discussions: One True Eira#1560

User avatar
Fullmetal-Senpai
Otaku
Posts: 1835
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:13 am
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: The Open letter

Postby Fullmetal-Senpai » Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:19 pm

I had a long thing planned and all of a sudden politics on the discord and then my PC decided to update. Maybe I'll sleep on it and we'll see if The Lord god nyarlathotep wills it