425) Anti-Heroes and Villainous Leads

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425) Anti-Heroes and Villainous Leads

Postby Andrew » Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:59 am

The not-so perfect heroes, the bad guys you learn to love, and the moral dilemmas it creates. Join the hosts as they discuss Anti-Heroes and Villains and their increase in favorability as main characters in anime.

Topics this episode: Heroes, Villains, Sympathetic Villains, Anti-Heroes, Cause and Effect, Storytelling, Crossing the Line of Villains, and individual show examination.

The opening for this episode is the OP for Overlord 2 called “GO CRY GO” by OxT. The closing for this episode is the OP for Saga of Tanya the Evil called “JINGO JUNGLE” by MYTH & ROID.

We hope you all enjoy!
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Re: 425) Anti-Heroes and Villainous Leads

Postby fragoff » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:56 pm

I can think of only one anti-hero. She leads a school with an iron fist and love wearing sluty outfits wile beating up one of her student, who happens to also wear a sluty outfit...and a scissor....
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Re: 425) Anti-Heroes and Villainous Leads

Postby BlueSpark » Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:57 am

fragoff wrote:I can think of only one anti-hero. She leads a school with an iron fist and love wearing sluty outfits wile beating up one of her student, who happens to also wear a sluty outfit...and a scissor....
Give it up, fragoff. They brought up the series in this podcast episode, so the topic is concluded. We shall never hear it mentioned again.
(Just make them think we've stopped caring - maybe then they'll let their guard down and release it!)

A cool topic episode, kudos! I do think some of your mentions were stretching it quite a bit, but then again, it's all for the sake of discussion, isn't it? I don't think I'd call a character an anti-hero (let alone a villain) on the mere grounds of breaking the law. It's really a matter of morals (the morals of our society, not the fictional one in the anime) in my opinion. But then again, I didn't study Greek literature, so who am I to speak :P.

Anyway, to illustrate my point, a nice example would be Yuri Lowell from Tales of Vesperia: He doesn't mind getting his hands dirty if he feels something needs to be done, but we as the player always feel that he's a 'good guy.' Contrast him to Velvet, the protagonist of Tales of Berseria, who doesn't care how many innocent people suffer in the wake of her quest for revenge - a quest which ultimately leads to a good outcome for her entire world. That's anti-hero material for you.

From the New World is an interesting case. I kind of wonder who you guys (I believe it was Andrew) meant when you said there were actually evil characters in this show. Were you referring to a member of the extended cast? Because there isn't anyone in particular who I'd consider evil/villainous. Or were you talking about the big twist revealed in the final episode? Because that's a different story altogether.

When you guys brought up Arata from Trinity Seven, I initially thought you were nominating him for a different reason - especially after you'd already talked about School Days. I mean, he does have that sleeziness about him ;). But I suppose he doesn't lay hands on any of the girls, at least not in the same way as Makoto does.
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Re: 425) Anti-Heroes and Villainous Leads

Postby Midnight Crooh » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:28 pm

Episode 425: Brought to you by the word "Technically"

Really interesting topic. I'm pretty big on shows with morally grey characters, so I enjoyed listening to you guys mull over who could or could not be considered an anti-hero or anti-villian character. Got a few comments on some of the things you brought up.

Cross Ange:
This show may have a fair number of flaws, but I really do love it because of how pretty much every character is either an anti-hero, anti-villian or just a straight-up villian. Ange herself is driven entirely by her own goals and anyone who doesn't align with them will be shoved out of the way. Even at the end of the show when the world is about to be destroyed she still doesn't care about saving it and only does so because it will, by extension, save another world that actually does mean something to her. Really hard to figure if she's an anti-hero or an anti-villian, because she really blurs that line. A shining example of a very dark Chaotic Neutral.

Tanya the Evil:
I definitely view Tanya as the villian. Her ultimate goal is entirely selfish and self-serving and she's willing to stoop to any tactic, no matter how cruel, merciless and dirty it may be if it means she stands a shot at being granted the easy life by her superiours. You are right in that most of her crimes are done because she's put in situations against her will. But the fact that she always chooses the most heartless option when there are other choices is what makes her a villian. Textbook Lawful Evil right there.

Worthy mention:
One show I don't think you mentioned was Black Lagoon, which is all about criminal gangs and follows a gang of crooks. The only reason we cheer for the main team is
1. They're underdogs. Small fish in a big sea of crime, and people love an underdog story.
2. They're not all assholes, just very pragmatic and business-focused.
3. They have Revy, and Revy is what makes this show. She's so much fun. Would definitely classify her as a villian, though not an antagonist. Chaotic Evil, in my book.