457) Random Harems

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Andrew
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457) Random Harems

Postby Andrew » Sun May 26, 2019 9:03 am

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Taking a look back into the last couple of weeks, the hosts of the Otaku Spirit Animecast once again give their take on the news of anime and the surroundings. Listen in to find out what grabbed their attention.

Topics this episode: Hello World, Eleven Arts, Satoshi Kon, Gundam, Aniplex, Inuyasha, Netflix June Releases, New Series, Game of Thrones, and much more!

The opening for this episode is the OP for Oreimo called “irony” by ClariS. The closing for this episode is the ED2 for March Comes In Like A Lion called “orion” by Kenshi Yonezu.

We hope you all enjoy!
http://otakuspirit.com/2019/05/animecast-random-harems/
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Re: 457) Random Harems

Postby BlueSpark » Wed May 29, 2019 6:42 am

Sorry in advance if I come across as defensive or annoying, but I need to stick up for my dubs again. I think Chris's idea of separating "serious tracks" and "laugh tracks" may have some very limited applicability, but in the vast majority of cases, that's a much too black-and-white way of looking at it. I don't think you'd seriously consider Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid a non-serious dub based on only 2 isolated lines of dialog, right?
So your proposition would force dubbing companies into coming up with a super goofy, gag-riddled audio track for every series they release. That's not feasible in the least if you ask me; you can only 'force' so many jokes as a script writer before getting burnt out. Special cases like Ghost stories are outliers, not something which can be reproduced consistently.
And on the flipside, simply leaving the lines in Dragon Maid as they are for a laugh track and then only changing these 2 specific sentences for the serious dub track would just seem silly because the differences would be so minute.

Also, as long as you're presenting your opinions and your ideas of what the anime industry players could do to improve, that's great. But it ruffles my feathers to hear you express how "the fandom" is heavily invested in the Japanese culture and thus familiar with their style of comedy and other cultural features. That's simply not true; you're referring to the hardcore fandom. I think it's grossly unfair to demand that Crunchyroll, Funimation et al. cater only to this demographic and exclude the casual crowd (in addition to oddballs such as myself). There's a very simple argument that I don't 100% endorse, but it illustrates the right idea: If you care that much about keeping the maximum integrity of cultural nuances and similar aspects, don't watch dubs, because they will never meet your requirements.

*takes a deep breath* Alright, got that out of the way.

I was surprised to hear that (If I understood correctly) Andrew knew relatively little about Waiting in the Summer. It's indeed a story by the same creator (mangaka, I believe) as Please Teacher, and it features an almost identical premise. It does differentiate itself over its runtime, though, and I found Waiting in the Summer to be more enjoyable, not least because it highlights several relationships at once (If I recall correctly, Please Teacher focused mostly on the single main relationship).

As a long-time non-fan of Makoto Shinkai's, but then converted into a steadfast believer by Your Name, I'm supremely unsure as to what to expect from his next movie. There's no question that I will watch Weathering with You, but I'll approach it with caution. I also don't think people should put the guy on a pedestal like they do. All they're doing is piling on unreasonable expectations.

It's a curious coincidence you'd choose the 2nd ED of March Comes in Like a Lion for the outro of this episode. I just finished the series the other day, and this was my favorite among its theme songs :>.
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Re: 457) Random Harems

Postby Chris » Thu May 30, 2019 4:42 pm

BlueSpark wrote:Sorry in advance if I come across as defensive or annoying, but I need to stick up for my dubs again.


no you are not annoying. i do wish i wasnt putting you on a defensive track but its the nature of this beast... why people are so protective of dubs or subs i do not know but it is what it is. i.e. the idol effect i pointed out in the last podcast. its fine you like the dubs and i do not in anyway discount your like for them. and i never will. i have never claimed to speak for the fandom as a whole that is impossible. i am speaking directly to the industry and pointing out issues that i see. if you feel differently then i guess im not speaking for you. but i think you may be missing the point of the last two podcasts if you belive i am bashing dubs. i really am not. we took the time to try and reassure you that was not our intent.

BlueSpark wrote: I think Chris's idea of separating "serious tracks" and "laugh tracks" may have some very limited applicability, but in the vast majority of cases, that's a much too black-and-white way of looking at it. I don't think you'd seriously consider Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid a non-serious dub based on only 2 isolated lines of dialog, right?


oddly enough though your coming from the oppisite end you are making the same agument as me. you CANNOT feesably make both a laugh track and a serious track at the same time. it is in no way feesable unless they intend on charging extra for the second track. that is entirely my point. why we are speaking past eachother is beyond me.

dragon maid:

no i do not. that was an entirly different situation. that and prison school are extream cases where it was grossly misstranslated. i guarentee there was no referance to the "patriarchy" or "gamergate" in the original shows. again you are making my point. they dont intend on making a laugh track. the intent is to make as true to the original translation. but they felt making a "western joke" was better. and while they were at it make it political. this is not in any way the original creators intent.

lets go back to andrews point and ill put my own spin on it to try and make it make sence from my perspective

lets say a japanese company wanted to translate george carlins NOW (National Orginization for Women) rant.

now makes sense to us and his rant is crude and he points out an irony in degrading hardcore feminists by calling them cupcakes and asking them to get in the kitchen and make him some dinner. it makes sence in america. we know what NOW is

now if a japanese dubbing company used the same mindset and translated now as the Kamishichiken. is some respects its right Kamishichiken are very empowered women. but this would be a gross misstranslation. ill explain in a second but lets continue to make the irony calling a geisha a cupcake and telling her to make him dinner she will likely do it. it misses the entire point of the joke. you took a cultural referance and ruined the joke.

Kamishichiken is a very powerful geisha district. they are said to be extreamly talented. but to associate them as the same as NOW would ruin the joke.

i used to bend to the argument of cultural referance as a way to make the dub make sense to the western audiance. it used to feel like a valid argument. however now it feels like an excuse to force a side. i dont care if i agree with them or not this alianates fans. this is my point. when we first mentioned it back with the prison school thing we pointed it out then. you cannot force a side of a hot political issue into the final product and then spit on people who are bothered by it. if it was racially insensitive it would be the same problem. then when people spoke up about it they were to spit at them. its not a problem of the joke its a problem of the culture. i am stating a middle ground that everyone should be able to agree upon.

they are two seperate issues yet maybe thats why we are speaking passed each other. both are centered around what i was actually pointing at and that is customer service. by taking the tract they have they are effectivly disenfranchising a huge portion of their audiance. then as per a quote of a funimation voice actor: (does not matter who he is but its out there if you look for it)

quote:
"There's nothing for for wich to apoligize to you. YOU owe all of US an apology, we dont need an apology from you. Unfortunatly, you still need apples.

(to be clear this is in referance to a heated discussion about the kick vic thing.) i bring it up here because it couldnt have came at a more pointed time. this is my point in a tweet. reguardless of where you stand on any issue. this person feels you owe him. ie what i said in the podcast he is the gate keeper. this is flat out backwards. i am the customer. he just disenfranchised me as a customer.

if you went into mc donalds and the server said that you would walk right out. think about it. what is the difference?

im not saying the dubs are bad im talking about the customer service...

i dont know how to make this more clear. the laugh track / serious track is a way around the problem. being more true to the original script is a way around the problem. the problem is customer service.




BlueSpark wrote:
Also, as long as you're presenting your opinions and your ideas of what the anime industry players could do to improve, that's great. But it ruffles my feathers to hear you express how "the fandom" is heavily invested in the Japanese culture and thus familiar with their style of comedy and other cultural features. That's simply not true; you're referring to the hardcore fandom. I think it's grossly unfair to demand that Crunchyroll, Funimation et al. cater only to this demographic and exclude the casual crowd (in addition to oddballs such as myself).


i disagree but thats fine. there is nothing wrong with your oppinion, in fact i love that you dissagree with me. i hope you are atleast trying to hear me out as i am trying to do for you.

;-)

BlueSpark wrote:There's a very simple argument that I don't 100% endorse, but it illustrates the right idea: If you care that much about keeping the maximum integrity of cultural nuances and similar aspects, don't watch dubs, because they will never meet your requirements.



this points back at my original argument. and i hope we can come together on it. i dont want you cut out any more then the people who are currently being cut out. i fand it frustrating that you effectivly just told me not to watch anime. now i know you are not saying that but if i was dub watcher and i had just been disinfranchised you just told me not to watch it. i am trying to bridge the gap you just cut me off.

please understand my point. the heart of the matter is the disinfranchisement through customerservice not dubs are bad. i get the impression thats what you heard me say and it is not.

thank you for the comments bluespark i hope i am giving you a solid response
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Re: 457) Random Harems

Postby BlueSpark » Fri May 31, 2019 4:15 am

Chris wrote:thank you for the comments bluespark i hope i am giving you a solid response
Oh, it was more than solid - you went out of your way here to be as elaborate as can be, and I appreciate it :).

Chris wrote:the heart of the matter is the disinfranchisement through customerservice not dubs are bad. i get the impression thats what you heard me say and it is not.
Indeed, it seems tough to find a common ground for us to firmly base the debate on. I completely recognize that you are not "bashing dubs." I get that your intent is for dubbing companies to listen to what their fanbase wants. All I'm trying to say is that there is no single unified fanbase with uniform desires.
Again, if you're addressing them with what you want out of the dubbing process, that's fine. It just sounds to me like your're saying that your demands are backed by the fandom (= "the customers") at large, and I don't quite buy that.

Chris wrote:i have never claimed to speak for the fandom as a whole that is impossible.
I guess I may have overreacted a little, but that's just how it came across to me. Hence my advance apology for being defensive about this.

Chris wrote:oddly enough though your coming from the oppisite end you are making the same agument as me. you CANNOT feesably make both a laugh track and a serious track at the same time. it is in no way feesable unless they intend on charging extra for the second track.
I guess this is baffling for both of us - I still don't see how I'm arguing toward the same point as you.
What I do understand now - at least I think so - is your emphasis on charging extra for the laugh track. This would provide the localization team with the additional funds necessary to invest extra time into this endeavor.
However, my main point is still that producing an entire dub track full of self-devised jokes would be too much of a creative challenge to be applicable to dubbed animes on a large scale. And creating a 'minor' laugh track with only a few creative jokes wouldn't be enough to justify the effort (nor the additional money the studio would charge for it).

Chris wrote:you cannot force a side of a hot political issue into the final product and then spit on people who are bothered by it. if it was racially insensitive it would be the same problem. then when people spoke up about it they were to spit at them. its not a problem of the joke its a problem of the culture.
I have no problem granting you this point. I guess politics are a bit of a sensitive issue (just like racism, as you mentioned), so I am perfectly content acknowledging that such topics should (mostly) be excluded from future dubs, unless it's a comedy whose humor is intended to be controversial or offensive.

Chris wrote:then as per a quote of a funimation voice actor: (does not matter who he is but its out there if you look for it)
The quote you cited is a bad example indeed. Still, in no way do I see that attitude as representative of the American voice-acting industry in general; I watch / listen to plenty of interviews and con panels in which VAs passionately state that they feel blessed to make this Japanese entertainment medium accessible to westerners (which shows high respect for "the customers").

Chris wrote:i fand it frustrating that you effectivly just told me not to watch anime. now i know you are not saying that but if i was dub watcher and i had just been disinfranchised you just told me not to watch it.
I get what you're saying, and I can actually see myself coming across as the bad guy with this statement. But I'm just spelling out what I see as an unfortunate fact: There are various resctrictions in the dubbing process that flat-out prevent the English version from being 100% faithful to the Japanese script. So if you are one of those disappointed fans you guys are speaking for, you will most likely never be completely satisfied with an English dub. And while studios can certainly strive to stick as closely to the original dialog as possible, that's simply not a goal I regard as particularly desirable.

Chris wrote:the laugh track / serious track is a way around the problem. being more true to the original script is a way around the problem. the problem is customer service.
Just to make my main point clear one more time, what you refer to as "the problem" isn't a problem at all for a good portion of the anime-watching community, at least in my experience as someone who frequents /r/animedubs (Also keep in mind the large crowd of casual fans who never 'speak up' - many of them are dub watchers, as well).
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Re: 457) Random Harems

Postby Fullmetal-Senpai » Fri May 31, 2019 4:23 am

BlueSpark wrote:Just to make my main point clear one more time, what you refer to as "the problem" isn't a problem at all for a good portion of the anime-watching community, at least in my experience as someone who frequents /r/animedubs (Also keep in mind the large crowd of casual fans who never 'speak up' - many of them are dub watchers, as well).

Alright man r/animedubs has 21.4k subs, r/anime has 1 million, r/manga has one million as well. I'm not trying to Shinji on dub fans but i believe you're in quite a minority being a dub only 'otaku'