429) Best Anime of 2018 Deliberations Part 1

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BlueSpark
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Re: 429) Best Anime of 2018 Deliberations Part 1

Postby BlueSpark » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:59 am

Eira wrote:You’re delusional
Whoah, whoa... I think we need an intervention here. To be perfectly frank, Eira, I think you're being more unreasonable than Mys has been in this entire thread. From where I'm standing, it looks like he was providing valid feedback on the podcast format, nothing more. I do think dropping the argument earlier might've been a good idea, but if Mys felt that his point was misunderstood, I believe he has every right to elaborate for clarification purposes. Perhaps Chris did understand exactly what he was saying, but Mys in turn didn't catch that - misinterpretations are an inherent problem with any form of communication, especially if it's text-only. "Just letting it slide" instead goes against everything fullmetal's open letter stands for, the way I see it. Didn't we want to encourage open discussion?

Bringing handicaps into this is going to make the whole thing really messy. Not really something I want to address - non-disabled people tend to get very self-conscious about these topics (recommended reading: Katawa Shoujo). Mys brought it up first, but I feel that Eira's prior post sounded quite provocative. I'm not going to attempt to judge who's in the wrong on this point. I just hope we can all accept that Mys was just trying to help out by letting our hosts know his opinion, he's been heard, but Andrew and Chris are the ones who are going to set the rules, and we let the matter rest now.
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Re: 429) Best Anime of 2018 Deliberations Part 1

Postby fragoff » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:51 am

BlueSpark wrote:misinterpretations are an inherent problem with any form of communication, especially if it's text-only. "Just letting it slide" instead goes against everything fullmetal's open letter stands for, the way I see it.


Yep. You have to have experienced internet and forums a lot to get this. Not an easy process. I just want to point out the 'just letting slide' can be a good way to act on certain occasions. Like if you talk with someone but nothing gets through or that answering would just create more flame.

People who do not understand that putting intentions and meanings behind what is actualy written is a dangerous game. Those tend to rage-write easely.

This doesn't mean that there is never a 'hidden' meaning behind something written, it just mean that as long as you do not clarify it, putting your own twist on it does not make it the truth.

Also, burning discutions are never good. You spend more time throwing snot at your interlocutor than reaching a common agreement, even if it is to not agree.

As a rule of thumb, never take a forum post personal. If it flames you, jest about it if it is intended as a friendly joke. If you can't, let it slide, it is not worth it.
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Re: 429) Best Anime of 2018 Deliberations Part 1

Postby Mys145 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:17 pm

Eira wrote:
Spoiler:
Mys145 wrote:I never said that they have to watch every show. I feel like you guys are assuming things that I never said at all. It wasn't about having to watch everything. It's about the shows that aired this year that they watched and decided that they aren't considering shows with episode counts above 50. If they watched it, there's no harm to have it for consideration.

It's time to make you guys feel bad that I don't have the ability to do a podcast because I can't speak clearly in real life and there's no way people will listen to my voice for hours for a podcast. It's been that way since I was a child. It's also why I get annoyed when you guys missing my points and assuming things.


“It’s time to make you guys feel bad” how about instead I make you feel silly, haha! Don’t try and play the guilt card, it’s shows that you think some small issue you have means people should treat you better. But I have autisim, so first of all there’s that, your speaking problem has nothing on me. Secondly do you want me to hadincap you? If you want to be treated as a disabled person so much I can handicap you and just pretend like I think what you’re saying is okay and not point out any issues with what you’re saying? Is that what you want? Also my autisim means I lack empathy for others, it sometimes makes me a horrible person but I also means I don’t care if you’re upset that you’re misunderstood.

Also it doesn’t matter if it’s a podcast or a written blog. You’re not going to do something weekly for years on end and then still watch every episode every show and write/ talk / anything about ALL of them in great detail.

Mys145 wrote:I'm not arguing for the sake of it. If I didn't care about this, I wouldn't said anything and continue on my day. I would have been fine if Chris understood what I was originally saying and said I see your point but still won't change it. Because I felt my point was misunderstood, I felt I needed to clarify it.


Guess what, that’s not how real life works. If someone misunderstood your point you should still let it slide. Cause you can tell what he’s going to say and you can see that he’s explained why he’s going about the podcast a certain way. It’s clear you’re just trying to push your point further cause you think if you reword it or if you say it a bit different that he’ll change his mind.

Here the thing, you haven’t been misunderstood. We get what you’re trying to say, but it doesn’t change anything. Like I said, you’re delusional becuase you think your points are valid and that we must be understanding if we don’t agree with you. But we just actually don’t agree with you! Get over yourself and see that no matter what you say, Chris doesn’t want to do what you’re suggesting and he should have to and you need to drop this.

We understand and we disagree.

Mys145 wrote:Sorry for seeming to be unreasonable Chris, I wasn't trying to be just wanted to get my point correctly.


It was gotten correctly the first time, he just never agreeed to it and that made you mad so you kept pushing assuming that if someone doesn’t agree with you then it’s their fault and they just don’t understand.

Get over yourself!

And get back to me on that handicap, I can treat you like a disabled person, since you seem to want it so bad.


So I'm delusional because I want to be understood before giving up on it or thinking that my opinion is valid. I rather be delusional then than thinking my opinions are never valid or can't clarify anything I said. So my opinion about podcast format isn't valid because I'm not directly involved, then people shouldn't have opinions about anything ever especially political views since we aren't directly involved. I'm capable of letting things slide but if I feel my point isn't being accurately to the other person, I will continue until I feel satisfied and done with it.

Also you shouldn't say that my opinion isn't valid as anyone else's opinion about it if they had a differing opinion. As you put it, you're a horrible person because you don't know how to express your opinion without berating the person that you disagree with. I respect people more who can express their different opinions without directly insulting the person like you did to me. Chris didn't insult me like you did. If I did sound like that they should change based on my opinion, then I'm sorry for that. They can do whatever but it shouldn't mean that I should be quiet because it doesn't matter. Countless people do the same thing everyday posting or saying their opinions about what they don't like regardless if they have the power to change people's minds or not. Someone who has strong opinions about things such as you shouldn't be the one to say that another's person opinion isn't valid at all.

I'm not disabled in the mind just only speaking aloud. You can say whatever now but I will do the thing that Chris did earlier and not say anymore about this.

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Re: 429) Best Anime of 2018 Deliberations Part 1

Postby Fullmetal-Senpai » Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:42 pm

Jesus what the hell happened here?

Edit:
And why was I brought up?

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Re: 429) Best Anime of 2018 Deliberations Part 1

Postby fragoff » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:45 pm

Fullmetal-Senpai wrote:
Edit:
And why was I brought up?

Arn't you the OP of the (in)famous 'open lettre' post? You are like a legend among people who love to write long esssaies on what makes a discution proper on a forum.
You should congratulate yourself more often!
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Re: 429) Best Anime of 2018 Deliberations Part 1

Postby Eira » Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:52 am

BlueSpark wrote:
Eira wrote:You’re delusional
Whoah, whoa... I think we need an intervention here. To be perfectly frank, Eira, I think you're being more unreasonable than Mys has been in this entire thread.


That may be true, how he went about this whole thing really rubbed me the wrong way and so I went on the attack as it annoyed me to no end and I wanted him to stop.

BlueSpark wrote:From where I'm standing, it looks like he was providing valid feedback on the podcast format, nothing more. I do think dropping the argument earlier might've been a good idea, but if Mys felt that his point was misunderstood, I believe he has every right to elaborate for clarification purposes. Perhaps Chris did understand exactly what he was saying, but Mys in turn didn't catch that.


Which is why I was so forceful, mys didn’t seem to get that Chris was just repeating himself and that they’d reached a point where neither would change their minds earlier, I simply wanted him to know when to stop and stop. I had a friend just like him in the past and seeing someone act like that has always bothered me since, I was telling him to let it go for everyone’s sake, including his own.

BlueSpark wrote:misinterpretations are an inherent problem with any form of communication, especially if it's text-only. "Just letting it slide" instead goes against everything fullmetal's open letter stands for, the way I see it. Didn't we want to encourage open discussion?


Yes, but discussion can happen without annoying Chris by telling him he should run his podcast differently and make him keep repeating himself because you refuse to take no for an answer and also don’t bring up any new points.

What I did doesn’t go against the open letter, I was a huge supporter of it, I wouldn’t go against it and you should know that. Also I asked senpi and he said it doesn’t, he’s my friend so I can actually check this stuff.

BlueSpark wrote:Bringing handicaps into this is going to make the whole thing really messy. Not really something I want to address - non-disabled people tend to get very self-conscious about these topics (recommended reading: Katawa Shoujo).


Not gonna lie that last bit seems pretty condescending and I don’t appreciate it at all. I literally have autisim, don’t act like I need to read up on disabilities. I’ve read katawa shoujo anyway. And also I don’t want to give anyone a handicap but I feel like it would make mys not use his disability as some kind of leverage anymore since it worked on my old friend who acted the same way.

BlueSpark wrote:Mys brought it up first, but I feel that Eira's prior post sounded quite provocative. I'm not going to attempt to judge who's in the wrong on this point. I just hope we can all accept that Mys was just trying to help out by letting our hosts know his opinion, he's been heard, but Andrew and Chris are the ones who are going to set the rules, and we let the matter rest now.


Mys brining it up is fine and I had no problem with that. His constant responding with no new points was what got to me, Chris seemed obviously annoyed and I think that’s refracted in how outside of calling Mys delusional he thinks I isn’t to too far. Chris is my friend and seeing him getting annoyed and badgered by Mys, who was acting like an old ex friend I use to have, annoyed me in all kinds of ways.

It was meant to provoke him, I’m glad that got across, cause the best result is for him to let it go after Chris made it clear from the get go he wasn’t going to change it.

fragoff wrote:
BlueSpark wrote:misinterpretations are an inherent problem with any form of communication, especially if it's text-only.

Yep. You have to have experienced internet and forums a lot to get this. Not an easy process.


I disagree, I don’t think it’s that hard to get. Also I think it just require social interaction to get, not specific to the internet or forums.

fragoff wrote:I just want to point out the 'just letting slide' can be a good way to act on certain occasions. Like if you talk with someone but nothing gets through or that answering would just create more flame.


This is my main point, Chris was getting aggitated, or so it seemed and Mys didn’t realise that it was pointless to keep on going. He made up this idea in his head that the only way Chris would disagree with him was if he didn’t understand it, so he kept pushing. But in reality, Chris just didn’t agree with him. And the fact that he put himself so high and though his opinion was the best thing since sliced bread annoyed me.

fragoff wrote:People who do not understand that putting intentions and meanings behind what is actualy written is a dangerous game. Those tend to rage-write easely. This doesn't mean that there is never a 'hidden' meaning behind something written, it just mean that as long as you do not clarify it, putting your own twist on it does not make it the truth.


I’m going to assume this is aimed at me cause I made a lot out of the intentions behinds Mys’ post that wasn’t said by him right out.

However since I’ve felt with someone who acted exactly like this in the past I’m 97% sure I understand what Mys is trying to say and what his intentions are, he wouldn’t be going about things this way and saying certain things unless the intentions for them are as I stated give or take some details, the base idea should be the same. Of course that’s a bad look so he’ll just deny it, but acting defensive in this situation is exactly what I expected of him and it’s why I went on the attack early.

Mys145 wrote:So I'm delusional because I want to be understood before giving up on it or thinking that my opinion is valid.


Nope. That’s not what I said and you know that’s not what I said, you’re just trying to twist my words around to fit your own agenda.

Mys145 wrote: I rather be delusional then than thinking my opinions are never valid or can't clarify anything I said. So my opinion about podcast format isn't valid because I'm not directly involved, then people shouldn't have opinions about anything ever especially political views since we aren't directly involved.


Nice straw man AND slippery slope argument there. The double whammy of responses. I didn’t say your option was invalid right off the bat, your first post is fine and I have no issue with you voicing your opinion, in fact I’m glad you did so. that much IS supporting the open letter, its the way you kept pushing it that bothers me and seems like it bothers Chris.

Mys145 wrote:I'm capable of letting things slide but if I feel my point isn't being accurately to the other person, I will continue until I feel satisfied and done with it.


This is a problem because Chris did understand you, you just felt like he didn’t and that shows that you have a horrible mindset and don’t consider what other people are feeling or thinking. You kept pushing your own point, just rewording things and not actually brining up new things because you assumed he disagreed with you because he misunderstood and not just because he disagrees with you while understanding it.

You need to accept that not everyone is going to agree with your idea of how it should be done and that’s why I said you needed to stop, I didn’t intervene until this point cause that’s when it was getting bad and I wanted to save Chris from your masneess, you wouldn’t stop so I came in to be another voice to try and end it all.

Mys145 wrote:Also you shouldn't say that my opinion isn't valid as anyone else's opinion about it if they had a differing opinion. As you put it, you're a horrible person because you don't know how to express your opinion without berating the person that you disagree with.


I’m a horrible person but I didn’t insult you, I just said what you were doing was bad and that you shouldn’t have that kind of mindset, I stand by it. You’re also a horrible person, you just think so highly of yourself that you can’t even see that what you’re doing is horrible and negatively affecting those around you.

Mys145 wrote:I respect people more who can express their different opinions without directly insulting the person like you did to me. Chris didn't insult me like you did. If I did sound like that they should change based on my opinion, then I'm sorry for that.


I didn’t insult you and Chris only didn’t is because he’s too nice of a guy, but he had ever right to and if he did I wouldn’t of been surprised, you kept pushing him and it was very rude of you to do that!

Mys145 wrote:They can do whatever but it shouldn't mean that I should be quiet because it doesn't matter. Countless people do the same thing everyday posting or saying their opinions about what they don't like regardless if they have the power to change people's minds or not.


It does mean you should know when to shut up tho, you stated your opinion and Chris said no, you kept going and he kept saying no. You needed to be told to stop so I told you to stop, that’s all, knowing when you’ve gone too far, please try to get better at this as it will only cause problems if you don’t.

Mys145 wrote:Someone who has strong opinions about things such as you shouldn't be the one to say that another's person opinion isn't valid at all.


Good thing I didn’t say it wasn’t valid at all then and only said you should stop once Chris started to get bothered by it, he has better things to do then repeat himself at you.

Mys145 wrote:I'm not disabled in the mind just only speaking aloud. You can say whatever now but I will do the thing that Chris did earlier and not say anymore about this.


Awesome, that’s all I wanted.

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Re: 429) Best Anime of 2018 Deliberations Part 1

Postby BlueSpark » Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:43 am

Eira wrote:Not gonna lie that last bit seems pretty condescending and I don’t appreciate it at all. I literally have autisim, don’t act like I need to read up on disabilities. I’ve read katawa shoujo anyway.
I have to apologize - this part of my post came across completely wrong. The Katawa Shoujo remark was completely tongue-in-cheek (and not directed at you specifically), but I should've anticipated that this wouldn't translate well in an otherwise serious post. Please disregard it, if you would.

However, I stand by everything else I said. Judging purely from what I've read in this thread, I'm giving Mys the benefit of the doubt on his good intentions.
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Re: 429) Best Anime of 2018 Deliberations Part 1

Postby Eira » Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:31 am

BlueSpark wrote:
Eira wrote:Not gonna lie that last bit seems pretty condescending and I don’t appreciate it at all.
I have to apologize - this part of my post came across completely wrong. The Katawa Shoujo remark was completely tongue-in-cheek (and not directed at you specifically), but I should've anticipated that this wouldn't translate well in an otherwise serious post. Please disregard it, if you would.

Okay, I get what you mean now and we how it was meant to be interpreted. This whole forum is a mess right now and that post was really long and took me ages to format with all the quote marks and I spent like an hour writing it so I was stressed and had reached the point of just going all out attack at anything they even slightly erked me.

BlueSpark wrote:However, I stand by everything else I said. Judging purely from what I've read in this thread, I'm giving Mys the benefit of the doubt on his good intentions.


That’s fair enoug, I just can’t bring myself to believe in some benefit without seeing it. It’s a bit pessimistic of me to do that, but that’s the point I’ve been pushed too after all the Shinji I had to deal with the last time someone acted the way he acts.

But I respect that you’re sticking by what you said, I also can’t stand people who crumble and change believes or opinions on a whim or based on what others say.

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Re: 429) Best Anime of 2018 Deliberations Part 1

Postby Fullmetal-Senpai » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:24 am

fragoff wrote:
Fullmetal-Senpai wrote:
Edit:
And why was I brought up?

Arn't you the OP of the (in)famous 'open lettre' post? You are like a legend among people who love to write long esssaies on what makes a discution proper on a forum.
You should congratulate yourself more often!

Papa bless

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Re: 429) Best Anime of 2018 Deliberations Part 1

Postby fragoff » Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:03 pm

Eira wrote:
I’m going to assume this is aimed at me....


No. At least not only you. It was a general point of view.
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